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	<title>Comments on: Helping each other learn Web Design</title>
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	<description>Living and learning for life</description>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/comment-page-1/#comment-707</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 11:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/#comment-707</guid>
		<description>Wow, thanks for all the helpful feedback people!

Penny, the clarification was helpful :)

Matt: glad that you&#039;re feeling more comfortable with the pace of the course!

Rob: I agree... I think it would be much better if people are working on their own projects, perhaps just being more involved with the projects of the people in our smaller group. Makes perfect sense :)

John: Gee... there&#039;s a lot of business gems in there... think it&#039;ll take me a while to process them! Thanks for the advice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, thanks for all the helpful feedback people!</p>
<p>Penny, the clarification was helpful :)</p>
<p>Matt: glad that you&#8217;re feeling more comfortable with the pace of the course!</p>
<p>Rob: I agree&#8230; I think it would be much better if people are working on their own projects, perhaps just being more involved with the projects of the people in our smaller group. Makes perfect sense :)</p>
<p>John: Gee&#8230; there&#8217;s a lot of business gems in there&#8230; think it&#8217;ll take me a while to process them! Thanks for the advice!</p>
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		<title>By: John Holley</title>
		<link>http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/comment-page-1/#comment-706</link>
		<dc:creator>John Holley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 10:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/#comment-706</guid>
		<description>Twenty students to one Michael.

In the interests of the TAFE, facilitators time is most productively spent with the new students in a class room situation.

One of the most effective ways to improve a organizations resource to desired results ratio is to improve the results with the current resources. In this case facilitator to graduating students.

A large portion of resources are already expended by the time a student enters the class for the first time; that is infrastructure, management, advertising and administration. So each new student represents a high resource expenditure. 

The maintenance of this expenditure is the most productive use of  additional resources. Since the drop-out rate is inversely proportional to time spent at college the focus of facilitators is most effectively spent on new students.

Since new students have common learning needs the most efficient use of resources is to addressed these needs are in a classroom situation.

So the traditional model goes.
 

Two issues

While the current drop-out rate prevails the number of new students demanding basic information will remain greater to the number of knowledgeable students demanding advanced information.

Fewer  knowledgeable students continue to value the more advanced information at the same rate as the basic information.

Many students require basic resources. 

A few students contributing to resources at the same rate require more complex resources.


Possible strategies

Short term
Penny&#039;s suggestion has value. If  working those working on projects want assistance from Micheal perhaps some are prepared to assist meet demand for basic information. One way this could be achieved is a class chat room where simple questions can be answer by anyone and used as a basis for a FAQ list. This may work in class and after hours. In class it may save Micheal&#039;s back. It would also extent study hours for those who want to learn after hours with the assistance of other students. Then Michael may be have a little more time and be able to answer questions of those working on projects. There will be those who have fully accepted responsibility for their own education and prefer to work alone.

Perhaps this could be a basis for opening up shared communication channels between students; e-mails, IM, etc.

Insure everyone is assigned at least one study buddy  to share concerns to. Assign a small group of students to each more experienced student, who&#039;s roll is not acting as a councilor or a facilitator but more to have someone to tell when they are drowning.


Long term 

“Closing the back door”

The most effective way to use resources is to maintain clients not to get more. Most customers or clients won&#039;t tell why they are leaving they just go else ware: in excess of  80%.

Find out why people are dissatisfied with the current service. The traditional way is to send out a letter with a self-addressed envelop with an anonymous questionnaire. In this case perhaps an anonymous grievance site provided to students. This could be a good way to address issues before students leave.

Address the issues and inform people of any changes or why no changes can be made; current students and especially students who have left.

Until that information is available work on assumptions. This is the least effective method but allows clients to realize that their concerns are important. 

It might include:

		If you feel your not coping with the work load then.........

		If don&#039;t understand how to do something this is the procedure......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Twenty students to one Michael.</p>
<p>In the interests of the TAFE, facilitators time is most productively spent with the new students in a class room situation.</p>
<p>One of the most effective ways to improve a organizations resource to desired results ratio is to improve the results with the current resources. In this case facilitator to graduating students.</p>
<p>A large portion of resources are already expended by the time a student enters the class for the first time; that is infrastructure, management, advertising and administration. So each new student represents a high resource expenditure. </p>
<p>The maintenance of this expenditure is the most productive use of  additional resources. Since the drop-out rate is inversely proportional to time spent at college the focus of facilitators is most effectively spent on new students.</p>
<p>Since new students have common learning needs the most efficient use of resources is to addressed these needs are in a classroom situation.</p>
<p>So the traditional model goes.</p>
<p>Two issues</p>
<p>While the current drop-out rate prevails the number of new students demanding basic information will remain greater to the number of knowledgeable students demanding advanced information.</p>
<p>Fewer  knowledgeable students continue to value the more advanced information at the same rate as the basic information.</p>
<p>Many students require basic resources. </p>
<p>A few students contributing to resources at the same rate require more complex resources.</p>
<p>Possible strategies</p>
<p>Short term<br />
Penny&#8217;s suggestion has value. If  working those working on projects want assistance from Micheal perhaps some are prepared to assist meet demand for basic information. One way this could be achieved is a class chat room where simple questions can be answer by anyone and used as a basis for a FAQ list. This may work in class and after hours. In class it may save Micheal&#8217;s back. It would also extent study hours for those who want to learn after hours with the assistance of other students. Then Michael may be have a little more time and be able to answer questions of those working on projects. There will be those who have fully accepted responsibility for their own education and prefer to work alone.</p>
<p>Perhaps this could be a basis for opening up shared communication channels between students; e-mails, IM, etc.</p>
<p>Insure everyone is assigned at least one study buddy  to share concerns to. Assign a small group of students to each more experienced student, who&#8217;s roll is not acting as a councilor or a facilitator but more to have someone to tell when they are drowning.</p>
<p>Long term </p>
<p>“Closing the back door”</p>
<p>The most effective way to use resources is to maintain clients not to get more. Most customers or clients won&#8217;t tell why they are leaving they just go else ware: in excess of  80%.</p>
<p>Find out why people are dissatisfied with the current service. The traditional way is to send out a letter with a self-addressed envelop with an anonymous questionnaire. In this case perhaps an anonymous grievance site provided to students. This could be a good way to address issues before students leave.</p>
<p>Address the issues and inform people of any changes or why no changes can be made; current students and especially students who have left.</p>
<p>Until that information is available work on assumptions. This is the least effective method but allows clients to realize that their concerns are important. </p>
<p>It might include:</p>
<p>		If you feel your not coping with the work load then&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>		If don&#8217;t understand how to do something this is the procedure&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/comment-page-1/#comment-705</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 02:32:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/#comment-705</guid>
		<description>Hi Michael,I think it&#039;s a great idea for everyone to help each other and group, especially in a large class. Although I would probably think everyone would benifit more from doing there own projects (not as a group) as everyone would have different ideas and interested, passions etc.  Hope that makes scense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Michael,I think it&#8217;s a great idea for everyone to help each other and group, especially in a large class. Although I would probably think everyone would benifit more from doing there own projects (not as a group) as everyone would have different ideas and interested, passions etc.  Hope that makes scense?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/comment-page-1/#comment-704</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 02:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/#comment-704</guid>
		<description>I also like to get comfortable with one thing before moving onto another. I actually tried this course a couple of years ago and found it extremely hard juggling javascript and php at the same time trying to get up to speed with the rest of the course.

I think groups are a great idea too, it is much more sufficient and effective learning wise, and it lets us learn a good amount on our own in small groups.

P.S. I am enjoying the course so far, I am finding it at my pace and very laid back instead of all in your face. I am looking forward to learning more!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also like to get comfortable with one thing before moving onto another. I actually tried this course a couple of years ago and found it extremely hard juggling javascript and php at the same time trying to get up to speed with the rest of the course.</p>
<p>I think groups are a great idea too, it is much more sufficient and effective learning wise, and it lets us learn a good amount on our own in small groups.</p>
<p>P.S. I am enjoying the course so far, I am finding it at my pace and very laid back instead of all in your face. I am looking forward to learning more!</p>
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		<title>By: Penny</title>
		<link>http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/comment-page-1/#comment-703</link>
		<dc:creator>Penny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2006 00:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/#comment-703</guid>
		<description>Just to clarify- it may have been a different case, because I tried to take on a lot of things at once (PHP, Javascript, CSS) because with the projects I was doing I needed to.  I think it would be more beneficial (for me at least) to take each one at a time, and really get comfortable with each scripting language before moving to the next.  
But as for the discussions we have about current events etc. I love it! It&#039;s sometimes the best part of my week!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify- it may have been a different case, because I tried to take on a lot of things at once (PHP, Javascript, CSS) because with the projects I was doing I needed to.  I think it would be more beneficial (for me at least) to take each one at a time, and really get comfortable with each scripting language before moving to the next.<br />
But as for the discussions we have about current events etc. I love it! It&#8217;s sometimes the best part of my week!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/comment-page-1/#comment-702</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 21:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/#comment-702</guid>
		<description>No Penny... never get sick of hearing encouragement :). I hadn&#039;t actually thought of mixing the groups with people of different levels... but that&#039;s an even better idea! It would certainly be helpful for those just starting out to have access to someone more in the know (*touches nose with finger*).

Thanks for the feedback re too many topics at once. I&#039;ll certainly try to back off and not introduce too much new stuff at once!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Penny&#8230; never get sick of hearing encouragement :). I hadn&#8217;t actually thought of mixing the groups with people of different levels&#8230; but that&#8217;s an even better idea! It would certainly be helpful for those just starting out to have access to someone more in the know (*touches nose with finger*).</p>
<p>Thanks for the feedback re too many topics at once. I&#8217;ll certainly try to back off and not introduce too much new stuff at once!</p>
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		<title>By: Penny</title>
		<link>http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/comment-page-1/#comment-701</link>
		<dc:creator>Penny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2006 13:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://liveandletlearn.net/helping-each-other-learn-web-design/#comment-701</guid>
		<description>Hi Michael-
I think thats a fantastic idea. I hope you aren&#039;t getting too sick of hearing that from me!
I think it would be benficial to all of us in different ways.  Not just for those of us on similar subjects.  One of my main focuses right now, is figuring out a good way to get my ideas across when the person I&#039;m talking to doesn&#039;t have a high &#039;acronym understanding&#039;.
It would be great for those of us who have been in the course a little longer, to help those of us new to HTML and CSS- those acronyms we&#039;re pretty used to after only 9 months.
A concern I do have though, is taking on too many subjects/ topics at once. I find thise starts to get confusing.  Sometimes I feel like information I don&#039;t really understand is pushing the valuable stuff i&#039;m trying to remember, in one ear and out the other.
Looking forward to it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Michael-<br />
I think thats a fantastic idea. I hope you aren&#8217;t getting too sick of hearing that from me!<br />
I think it would be benficial to all of us in different ways.  Not just for those of us on similar subjects.  One of my main focuses right now, is figuring out a good way to get my ideas across when the person I&#8217;m talking to doesn&#8217;t have a high &#8216;acronym understanding&#8217;.<br />
It would be great for those of us who have been in the course a little longer, to help those of us new to HTML and CSS- those acronyms we&#8217;re pretty used to after only 9 months.<br />
A concern I do have though, is taking on too many subjects/ topics at once. I find thise starts to get confusing.  Sometimes I feel like information I don&#8217;t really understand is pushing the valuable stuff i&#8217;m trying to remember, in one ear and out the other.<br />
Looking forward to it!</p>
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